34 replies to this topic

[Peasetown]

The C.&M.A. has always taught the need for a "personal Pentecost" - a "crisis experience" where the believer surrenders all to Christ and welcomes the Holy Spirit to possess and sanctify them wholly; this has been called the "baptism of/with the Holy Spirit" - the "infilling of the Holy Spirit" - "receiving the Holy Spirit." Terms ARE important, yet something much more vital is that daily relationship of Zechariah 4:6 being a living reality. People can quibble over this and that - but our lives/churches should manifest the dynamic ministry and consuming holiness that the early Church did (with ALL the gifts of the Spirit.) ONLY God can accomplish His task: we cannot. So the question is asked, as it was in Acts 19:2: "Have you received...?" (And having received - are you living/moving/ministering in Him?)

[Kevin Blankenship]

Yes, I have believed that there was "something more"  than  having a conversion experience and realizing, finally, that I even needed a Saviour and Lord.  I am not a cessationist......who believes that you "get it all" when you pray the sinners prayer.  I believe that the Bible teaches that there is further grace to be obtained by the EARNEST seeker. 

  "You will see ME and you will find ME when you seek ME with ALL of your heart."

   Two wills .......the Will of God......and the will of Kevin Blankenship.  Over time and experience, I have grown to distrust MY will......it NEVER produces good fruit as it ALWAYS wants to have things. I say this to my shame. I'm not bragging about it.  But, I am not trying to put on my "HUMBLE KEVIN" mask so that people will think of me as: "Well, he has finally gained victory."  I haven't.

  But Jesus Christ HAS!!!!!!!! And I was/am/will be  IN HIM!!!!!!!!   Jesus overcame the world.  I was in the Last Adam when He did that!!!!  Hallelujah!!!!!  And so have y'all!!!!! As long as you reckon yourselves to be!!!!!! But our RECKONING is not what makes Christ's victory a fact.  It's the plain truth whether I RECKON it or not.  But when I DO reckon it.....then it becomes a TRUTH for me as well.  I have joined the brotherhood of believers!!!!!! (Sorry if that had nothing to do with the original subject.....but in a round about way it has something to do with the original subject)

[Albert Morse]

I do not look for speaking in tongues to confirm the Holy Spirit is within someone.  I look at what they do and how they act.

 

James 3:13-18 Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth. 15 This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice. 17 Butrthe wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. 18 And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

 

Too many times I have seen the emotionally driven person fail to live the life that God has instructed.  They want to live a life filled with the emotional exuberance that comes while speaking in tongues yet in reality they lack anything that reflects what God teaches through James.  They are filled with babbling yet have no compassion. My question is are you saved?  Have you repented of your sins?  Do you believe in Jesus Christ?  If you do not repent and believe you will be convicted because you have broken the commandments of God and will spend an eternity in Hell for your crimes.  The joy end emotional exuberance that overcomes me is filled with gratitude for what Jesus did.  It is also filled with shame for the sins I committed.  My emotion also comes from my desire for you to escape the pits of Hell.  I weep for those that will not repent.    

 

In conclusion what if I asked your neighbor if you were a Christian.  What would they say.  Do you hate them?  Do you love them?  Did you even tell them about Jesus?     

[Thinker]

Kevin and others, One thing that is good to keep in mind is the comparison of Ephesians 5:18-20 with Colossians 3:16-17. We are baptized by the Holy Spirit into the Body (the Church). (I Corinthians 12:13). At that moment we are filled. However, while there is one baptism (Ephesians 4:5), refilling is a constant need. As the Word dwells in us richly, we are filled in proportion to how much we apply and obey the Word. Show me someone who is born again, loves, studies, learns, applies and obeys the Word and there you have someone constantly being more and more filled. As the Word's way replaces our old Adamic way, the old is purged out, little by little, leaving more and more space for the Holy Spirit to fill. This is, among other things, "....bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ." (From II Corinthians 10:5).  Thinker  (Ron)

[DonnaA]

Enjoyed reading this thread ... how are you coming along in your study of Acts, Kevin?

 

[Kevin Blankenship]

Well, I am in Matthew now. But I just got through reading Luke.  Jesus said that He would NOT leave them comfortless....but that He would send the Comforter. And in Acts chapter 2, the Comforter comes with tongues of fire, or "like fire".  And His coming is accompanied by a rushing wind.  I wish that I could have witnessed it.  And then the 120 that were in the upper room praying began speaking in foreign language (that I assume they had not studied and become proficient at).  It seems to allude to when Jesus said Go to ALL the world.

   And then, when Peter was preaching to Cornelius and his family and friends, that during Peter's message: " And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

¹⁶ Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

¹⁷ Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?" 

     When the true Gospel of Jesus is preached today,  especially to a people who have never heard the Gospel as Peter preached it that day.....I was just thinking........wouldn't it be AWESOME if the Holy Spirit would fall on us as He did at the beginning.

   And in Luke, Jesus says: ^13" If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" 

    Donna, to answer your question exactly, I have the CD (Bible on CD) playing in my car.  And I cannot help but see a major difference from the way things were then, and the way things are now. And I often wonder:  Say, if God calls someone to be a missionary in a part of the world where the Gospel of Jesus Christ is little known, would the same thing happen.  I mean, the gift of the Holy Spirit (the gift being: The Holy Spirit Himself....and not the often talked about 'gifts of the Spirit') falling on the hearers as He did in Cornelius' houseful of kin and friends.

    And while I am on this subject ( I realize that I am digressing from your question, but please indulge me)...... I often wonder if the first century Christians were far less complicated as we are today....I mean.....with all of our distractions: TV, hobbies of every sort, and everything else that comprises modern society, and if this has become a major stumbling block to our ability to be singularly focused.  I mean, Cornelius's household, and Cornelius, were very very hungry for the words that Peter had to say to them. And God was just more than happy to give them a major outpouring of the Spirit. Sometimes I feel that I TOTALLY simplified my life and became singularly focused on Jesus and Him Crucified, that I, too, would experience this wonderful Gift of all gifts......the Holy Spirit Himself. 

    In the Book of Acts, the Holy Spirit is given MUCH importance!!!! Paul asked the disciple is Ephesus: "He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost."    This was very important to Paul. So much so, that it was important to God that these verse where added. 

  It saddens me to say, if I were asked the same question, that I might very possibly have to answer: "I'm not really sure"

  I have one set of Christian's who say that I recieved the Holy Spirit when I invite Jesus to be the Lord of my life. And another set of Christian'd who say  " Go tarry and with for the promise of the Father."  It just seems that I get confused about all of this so very easily.  Sorry for the long post. I cannot seem to make short ones. I must love to hear myself talk.

[DonnaA]

I don't think anyone should apologize for the length of their post, especially after one has asked for an update ...

 

 

The thing that popped out at me, regarding Peter's message to the Gentiles, was that he never got to the "altar call" ... their hearts were pricked and they WANTED what he was talking about, a relationship with the One True God.  So exciting!!! Reminds me of the native groups who were shown the JESUS film, in their own language, and when it got to the crucifixion they had to turn the film off and calm the people .... or the tribal groups who received the Bible in their own language for the first time and made a great celebration over it .... hearing God's Word in your own language makes it so much more personal .... so yes, I believe that the Holy Spirit still moves in remote areas where the language is unknown and miracles till happen.

[Kenny]

Well, I am in Matthew now. But I just got through reading Luke.  Jesus said that He would NOT leave them comfortless....but that He would send the Comforter. And in Acts chapter 2, the Comforter comes with tongues of fire, or "like fire".  And His coming is accompanied by a rushing wind.  I wish that I could have witnessed it.  And then the 120 that were in the upper room praying began speaking in foreign language (that I assume they had not studied and become proficient at).  It seems to allude to when Jesus said Go to ALL the world.

   And then, when Peter was preaching to Cornelius and his family and friends, that during Peter's message: " And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

¹⁶ Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

¹⁷ Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?" 

     When the true Gospel of Jesus is preached today,  especially to a people who have never heard the Gospel as Peter preached it that day.....I was just thinking........wouldn't it be AWESOME if the Holy Spirit would fall on us as He did at the beginning.

   And in Luke, Jesus says: ^13" If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" 

    Donna, to answer your question exactly, I have the CD (Bible on CD) playing in my car.  And I cannot help but see a major difference from the way things were then, and the way things are now. And I often wonder:  Say, if God calls someone to be a missionary in a part of the world where the Gospel of Jesus Christ is little known, would the same thing happen.  I mean, the gift of the Holy Spirit (the gift being: The Holy Spirit Himself....and not the often talked about 'gifts of the Spirit') falling on the hearers as He did in Cornelius' houseful of kin and friends.

    And while I am on this subject ( I realize that I am digressing from your question, but please indulge me)...... I often wonder if the first century Christians were far less complicated as we are today....I mean.....with all of our distractions: TV, hobbies of every sort, and everything else that comprises modern society, and if this has become a major stumbling block to our ability to be singularly focused.  I mean, Cornelius's household, and Cornelius, were very very hungry for the words that Peter had to say to them. And God was just more than happy to give them a major outpouring of the Spirit. Sometimes I feel that I TOTALLY simplified my life and became singularly focused on Jesus and Him Crucified, that I, too, would experience this wonderful Gift of all gifts......the Holy Spirit Himself. 

    In the Book of Acts, the Holy Spirit is given MUCH importance!!!! Paul asked the disciple is Ephesus: "He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost."    This was very important to Paul. So much so, that it was important to God that these verse where added. 

  It saddens me to say, if I were asked the same question, that I might very possibly have to answer: "I'm not really sure"

  I have one set of Christian's who say that I recieved the Holy Spirit when I invite Jesus to be the Lord of my life. And another set of Christian'd who say  " Go tarry and with for the promise of the Father."  It just seems that I get confused about all of this so very easily.  Sorry for the long post. I cannot seem to make short ones. I must love to hear myself talk.

 

 

Kevin

 

A person who has received the Holy Spirit has been provided with evidence and testimony to attest to that. Allow me to make a couple of brief comments using Scripture as support here.

 

Wherefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature: the old things are passed away; behold, they are become new. 2 Cor. 5:17

 

In other words, a person in Christ has experienced changes wrought in his/her life. Old things are a thing of the past and new things have replaced the old things. A person who is in Christ is one who has received the Holy Spirit. This new creature in Christ begins to experience new desires, new thoughts and a new way of seeing the world. He finds within himself a love for people and especially other brothers and sisters in Christ. The new creature in Christ will also be amazed to see that the Scriptures which once seemed obscure to his mind have been made clear and understandable for the first time. The new creature in Christ will have an appetite and desire to feed upon the word of God. I could go on and list other evidences of changes wrought within the person who now is in Christ but I believe you get the picture

 

This next verse of Scripture mainly confirms and lends support to the first verse which I posted.

 

The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God:  Rom 8:16

 

That verse states that the Holy Spirit provides a person who has received the Holy Spirit with an internal witness to our God given human spirit that we now have become and are in fact a child of God.

 

Those are a couple of ways to examine yourself to see whether or not you are in the faith (see 2 Cor 13:5) and in Christ and whether or not He dwells in you

 

We wouldn't be admonished to examine our self (2 Cor 13:5) if there wasn't a way to determine whether or not God lives in and dwells within us.

 

And one last and final verse as an encouragement  . . .

These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God. 

 

To know in this verse means to intuitively know without a doubt. We don't have to think we are saved, or hope we are saved. We can truly know by both the objective as well as the subjective evidence God provides for every genuine believer who is Christ.

 

Blessings

[Gordy]

Who cares about the length of a post.  I think that we need to read all the post.  I have that suggestion to do myself.

 

Let's think about that, Amen

[Speilb]

I haven't read all the replys posted but I really appreitated Kevin's thoughts and heart behind them.  I am convinced that your study and prayers will be rewarded.  As you know, keep away from movements that claim the Spirit but are not Passionate about Holiness since the HOLY Spirt is Holy and those who claim to love the Spirit but not Holiness have evidently found the wrong spirit.  Looking into historical accounts also is rewarding.  Be careful though some first-hand accounts have been edited (by Lifeway and others).  I strongly recommend the book "Holines" by Henry Blackaby.  It is about Holiness, but I recon that Holiness is vital in a study of the Holy Spirit.   

Also of first importance in a study to find the Truth about the Holy Spirit is simply to ask for the Spirit's help.  He is "The Spirit of Truth" and he loves to guide us into all Truth.  He searches the deep things of God and reveals them to us.  Never underestimate the value of giving an invitation.  I tell people all the time "Never study the Bible alone, your not smart enough to understand it, ask the Holy Spirit to read with you and teach you as you read".  People have been thrilled with the results. 

[gfurman]

Pick up and read a book by Martin Lloyd-Jones called "Joy Unspeakable"

Also, Tozer has many including a real short book called "How to be Filled with the Holy Spirit"

 

They both argue for secondary, subsequent experiences (post salvation) of being filled that result in assurance of salvation, boldness for witnessing (Acts) and holy living.

[JimmyS]

I think that you are exactly correct in taking ACTs at face value.  This is not a hard thing either.  Jesus said if we being evil know how to give good gifts to our children how much more will the father give the holy spirit to those who ask.  I could go on.  I used to read a lot of Finney, Tozer, Ravenhill etc, but my favorite on the holy spirit is Andrew Murray.  All the others seem to make it more difficult while at the same time saying it isnt about works, they lay out all these guidelines or works in order to receive.  Jesus said BELIEVE.  HE knows we are hopeless without him.

[Raymond W Brown]

When I accepted Jesus Christ as my peronal Savior that the Holy Spirit already dwells in me. So why should I ask to be filled with the Holy Spirit again?

[Kenny]

When I accepted Jesus Christ as my peronal Savior that the Holy Spirit already dwells in me. So why should I ask to be filled with the Holy Spirit again?

 

 

Hello Raymond

 

My personal take on that is this. In my understanding, while the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is truly a reality in the Christian, being filled with the Spirit differs from initial indwelling.  Every believer has the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit residing within them, yet not all indwelt believers are equally filled with the Holy Spirit. Filling of the Holy Spirit comes with yielding our bodies to the Lord and offering control of them to the Lord for His service. Eph. 5:18 commands us to be filled with the Spirit. The proper tense reading means to be continually filled with the Spirit. The more we yield control of our bodies to the Holy Spirit, the more we become filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

Blessings

Kenny

[Kevin Blankenship]

Well said Kenny.