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#1 elizabethcog

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:12 AM

Sitting around a fireplace in an assisted living center(aka nursing home) listening to a maintenance man sing old hymns as he strummed along on his guitar.The faces of the people all seemed different yet the same all joining in when they wanted, clappin' or foot tapping and Amening when led to. Just joining together strangers mostly but all family somehow,quietly yet boldly,proudly yet humbly....how is it possible these human words mean opposite yet convey a truth that seems to contradict? Not a one of us paused to think about- just each one praising and showing love to their Jesus The workers still passed pills and gathered the trash etc....but I watched like it was a movie and saw and did feel God there among and in us simple little people as we just Loved.
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#2 Jay Turner

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 08:35 AM

As His children, God just wants us to be who we were called and created to be. We should be this family, as you are describing here, who can just praise and worship God as ourselves; no pretenses or masks needed. We should be accepting of each other, warts and all, regardless of the road that life has laid out before us and the path that God has led us on. Yet I find it easier to be myself among the masses, just being the me of God's creation and calling, than when I am in the midst of my brothers and sisters in Christ. The people of this world have little to no expectations of me, so I can love them as I feel led. But with the children of God, I feel I must put on masks because my convictions and the direction of my calling may not adhere to their system of beliefs.

Ones beliefs, create a standard by which they must hold themselves accountable to and expectations by which they judge the world. The more adamant and true they are to their beliefs, the more bondage they create in the world around them. This is what we created through the fall, yet the life of redemption God has for us is one where our beliefs are stripped away and all that is left is just people living as they were created to be.
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#3 chipped china

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 07:33 PM

I loved the picture you painted Elizabeth. And Jay, what can I say, it's sad but true many times. That's why we must ask God to help us take a stand, expose ourselves to others with love. Let the Lord take away our fears and show people His love. Our acceptance and worth comes from the Lord, what can man do to us??? And actually when people see the real Spirit in us they are attracted to Him and their fear subsides too.
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#4 Jay Turner

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 11:03 PM

I loved the picture you painted Elizabeth. And Jay, what can I say, it's sad but true many times. That's why we must ask God to help us take a stand, expose ourselves to others with love. Let the Lord take away our fears and show people His love. Our acceptance and worth comes from the Lord, what can man do to us??? And actually when people see the real Spirit in us they are attracted to Him and their fear subsides too.


As you may have noticed, I am not afraid to say what needs to be said and make a stand, fighting for what is right, even when it is unpopular. One of the places it seems that God has called me to is to fight for those who have no voice and at times to go against the powers that be. I don’t necessarily like this position, yet I see the value and the need behind it, so I continue the good fight.

It seems that everywhere I turn, I see the abuse of power running rampant in almost every walk of life. The expectation is that we just suck it up, step into line, and not making waves. We are to be good little soldiers. Even in our churches, we are expected to come under the authority of our pastors and church leaders when in reality, the roles that they play are unbiblical. The lost and the wounded come to our churches seeking answers, seeking freedom, yet what they find is just another type of bondage under the guise of the freedom of Christ.

As believers, one of our biggest roles is simply to be a light to the world and to point people to Christ through our words and our actions. We should be teaching them how to praise, worship and seek God for themselves, while helping them to see who they are in Christ. We should be helping people to see their gifts, talents and calling, while placing tools into their hands so they can move forward into those callings. It shouldn’t take twenty years of seeking to experience the love and freedom in Christ, and the power found in walking in the Spirit. That is a failure on our part as leaders within the body of Christ.

A common phrase heard around the church is to “Go where you are fed.” While in reality, the difference between meat and milk, is that milk is meat that someone else has already chewed and digested. Yet this is the food that we continually encourage and expect believers to be seeking. God’s plan was always that we should seek Him instead of seeking other people. Yet every Sunday, people around the world turn to their pastors and church leaders, letting them have the role that He reserved for Himself. And we ask ourselves why we are despised by the world, why God doesn’t send revival and why, as believers, we are so weak and powerless.

There is a certain truth to the saying, “God helps those who help themselves.” We have certain roles to play and God expects us to do our part in the process. He works “through” His people, not in spite of them. At some point we need to stop playing church and start being the church, taking care of the lost, the hurt and the dejected. We need to be the mighty warriors that we were called to be, moving beyond the walls of the church, into every walk of life, reclaiming this world for God’s glory.
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#5 chipped china

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:27 AM

Whoa Jay! sorry if you think I misinterpreted the point you were making. I never assumed that you don't take a stand or love people you come in contact with. What you said Jay is exactly why I'm here at this site. It's the most real and true I have found. That's why every time I'm out and about or at the food bank I look for the sheep and the lost. It's my ministry. I gave up going to church on a regular basis a long time ago. But I've also decided to start going to a women's bible study because I think God is leading there. I have hope God will work through me and bless others.
I understand you're frustration. I went to a church about a year ago and told the pastor I needed to talk to an elder. He had no idea what to do with me and passed me off to someone that invited me to their bible study on Sundays.
It is alarming when you feel more comfortable with people in everyday life than in the church. WOW, Lord help us.

#6 Jay Turner

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:16 AM

Sorry if it seemed that I was going off on you. That was not my intent. It's just that it was through your post that God laid it on my heart to say what needed to be said.

As the body of Christ, we are a blessed people, whether we deserve it or not. Just look at the talents, tools and resources that we possess. Yet when we should be using these things to bless the world and bring about change, it seems that our focus is on building bigger buildings and securing our own little corner of this world. It seems that the role of the church should be to raise people up to a level of spiritual maturity, so that we can send them out into the world, but how can that happen when one of the few thing we are truly producing is an overabundance of codependent saints? There is a verse that says that we should go out and plow our lands and prepare our fields, then build our houses. The idea is that when we put our time and energy into preparing for the harvest, out of our abundance we can build our houses. When we build our houses first, all our time and energy ends up going into building our houses and we find that there is little to nothing left because we have no harvest coming in. Just think of all that we could have accomplished with the billions upon billions of dollars we have invest in building bigger buildings.
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#7 Charles Miles

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:20 PM

Jay, I hear what you say in the above posts and actually have to agree with most of the content. Maybe I am wrong here, and I may certainly be, but I do sense some anger in your words when you speak of pastors, church leaders, as well as teachers. We all understand many problems with organized religion and some of the perils that arise from such problems, but quite possibly the answer is not to "throw the baby out with the bath water". Jesus went to the synagoge each sabbath "as was His custom", so gathering of our believing community is something our Lord did weekly(or at least customarily). Holy Spirit gives some the gifts of teaching, preaching, and other gifts that are very useful to all of us, but very, very useful to new converts to Christianity. Yes, we should all aspire to go forth as "mighty warriors" to spread the word, but that is going to necessitate a mature christian who is well grounded in faith and jsut what authority he/she actually has to get the job done. Satan is waiting out there for the ill prepared babe who only knows scriptural "milk".
Most of us here enjoy reading Tozer, Simpson, Kenyon, Wesley, Spurgeon, listening to Missler, Graham, and other spirit filled teachers and saints that help us to become mature christians who then with our own prayer, study of the scipture, and faith....can then go on to be the warriors which you spoke of. I certainly do not think of these great men of the faith as power-hungry leaders who seek to control the christian community for self gain or profit. Some people have been given revelation and knowledge about spiritual truths that can be communicated to others for information....see Isaiah, Samuel, Moses, Jeramiah, and John the Baptist. These men would be worth listening to and they, in turn, would want to sit at the feet of Jesus and listen to Him expound on scriptural meanings.

In my mind, we learn by individual study, prayer, listening to spirit filled saints, and then gather together at our houses of worship to celebrate, exhort, and encourage each other to proceed ahead, learn Kingdom principles, and keep digging into this "deeper life" that is associated, surrounded, and overflowing with the love of God. Sorry to continue for so long. One more thing though...we in the Body of Christ ARE very blessed, and we DO NOT deserve it.

In the Love of Christ,

Charlie
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#8 elizabethcog

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

Perhaps we should fling open wide those man made celestial doors of our churches and REALLY welcome the hurt,suffering, flawed,broken, sick, mad at God and the world people and SHOW them grace and love and welcome in acceptance just like Jesus did and still does.Be love,Be mercy and reflect His light so others will FEEL like there is some good news to hear and just rest in Jesus and trust that His word is true,I pray this for myself to be as loving and forgiving as possible,not to earn a thing but because it really is the least I can do considering all He did and does for me and all of us wherever we are.
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#9 Jay Turner

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:26 PM

Perhaps we should fling open wide those man made celestial doors of our churches and REALLY welcome the hurt,suffering, flawed,broken, sick, mad at God and the world people and SHOW them grace and love and welcome in acceptance just like Jesus did and still does.Be love,Be mercy and reflect His light so others will FEEL like there is some good news to hear and just rest in Jesus and trust that His word is true,I pray this for myself to be as loving and forgiving as possible,not to earn a thing but because it really is the least I can do considering all He did and does for me and all of us wherever we are.


I think it is important to start opening our doors to the peoples of the world. For many churches, that would be a natural thing, one which some are already doing in various ways. For others, it would be more of a stretch. It may require time and energy spent in preparing congregations and finding ways to be more inviting. At the same time, it is important that we start moving outside the walls of the church and get out into the world. We cannot always expect the lost and the wounded to come to us. Many have been hurt by the church and that is one of the last places that they would go. So we should be asking how we can meeting them where they are. Like today, one of my neighbors was out shoveling his driveway, so I grabbed a shovel and helped him out. It wasn't anything major and we didn't say more than 20 words to each other. But in that simple act I took a step in building a relationship with him and showing him the love of Christ. That was just a small example, but just imagine how much of an impact the body of Christ could have if each of us started doing small things like this on a regular basis.
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#10 elizabethcog

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 03:53 AM

Exactly,you are spot on,we must open the "door" of our hearts to showlove before all else,wherever we areJesus is, thus we are the church.When my small self is afraid or doubts I go to Jesus in prayer and His mighty word to fill up so my heart (by his power) will be refilled to overflowing . He does this to build his church right where we are in our everyday lives.....
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