Discussions

A few questions

Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:48:15 +0000

Let's please stay away from conjecture and just use the Bible in relation to the answers.

Thanks

The Management

Question 1: While Christ was Man, was He under the Law (of Moses)?

CMA Apology Letter to MK's

Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:20:07 +0000

I am a missionary kid. I was born while my parents were in home service preparing to go to Burkina Faso, then Upper Volta, West Africa. I have loved every minute of being an MK, it defines who I am. When I was seven I went of to boarding school for the first time. I was excited and had been bugging my parents about going for years since all my older friends already attended. It was a little scary to get on the bus and leave home for the first time but it was also really exciting to be finally going off to school with all my friends. I loved my new dorm parents Jewel and Evan Evans, they were awesome. They took such care of all of us kids just like we were their own. They disciplined us like loving parents as well. I had some well deserved spankings and was grounded a few times too. My parents visited when they could and made it for every important event. When they came my sisters and I had the fun of choosing which friends to bring out to the mission guest house to spend the weekend with our parents. When my parents left, yes we were a little sad but our dorm parents and friends were always there for us and we soon forgot to be sad with all the fun things we had to do. We always had wonderful long vacations at home but by the end of vacation we were always more than ready to go back to school.

I loved my experience at ICA and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I cried when I heard they had to evacuate the school and I was really sad when I heard they finally had to close the doors due to the political turmoil in the Cote d' Ivoire. ICA had an excellent and very high standard of education. No school I ever attended in the States was as challenging as the curriculum at ICA. The teachers were very helpful when I had a problem and since I was the test case for a child with learning disabilities for the school I had many problems. My mother was always there to go to bat for me whenever there was an issue that she felt needed to be dealt with. Everyone at the school from the Principal to the teachers I had to all my dorm parents had nothing but my best interests at heart. Life wasn't perfect but I loved my experience at ICA and all my siblings and most of my fellow students share that feeling.

When I read the apology letter to all MK's I was sad that some MK's had such a horrible experience but I felt that the letter neglected to mention all of us who have had such wonderful experiences at boarding school. I think a thank you letter should have been written to all the wonderful teachers and dorm parents and boarding school staff that DID do a good job. I feel for those people who were abused at that one boarding school but it was a long time ago and I don't think they should tar all the schools and all the staff with the same brush. The Alliance had good intentions in making boarding school mandatory as what else are missionaries to do with their children for a good education while they are in ministry? Mom tried to home school me one year but I hated it and she didn't like it much either. I think ICA was the best option for me and I loved every minute I spent there. Yes, I went to school young but all my friends were there already and I wanted to go. I certainly wasn't traumatized nor do I have deep feelings of loss and abandonment. I knew Mom and Dad still loved me and would have loved having me home all the time but I knew that wasn't possible. I also knew they'd visit when they could and would be there for all the important events. I also knew my dorm parents loved me and considered it a great honor and responsibility to take care of us for our parents that was their ministry to the missionaries. God called many wonderful people to be a part of my life as ICA staff and along with my parents; they helped to shape me into the person I am today.

The Anti-Homosexual Argument from Leviticus

Sat, 08 Nov 2008 02:44:23 +0000

The standard so-called "Biblical" case against homosexuality is not as air-tight as many people seem to think. There are many points people bring up routinely, and it's amazing how the attacks don't hold up--if you look at their Biblical "evidence" carefully.

In their denunciations of homosexuality, I'm sure you have heard people quote the following verses. You may have quoted these verses yourself. When you hear these verses, it sounds like it is pretty open and shut. There is a problem, however.

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination," (Leviticus 18:22).

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them," (Leviticus 20:13).

You know, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it for me."

There's a big problem with quoting Leviticus, however. The problem is that Christians are no longer under the Law. This is from the Apostle Paul. It is not something made up, manufactured or fabricated. It is from God's Word. The Apostle Paul wrote it in Galatians. And yes, God said it, I believe it . . .

"All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law,'" (Galatians 3:10).

If we rely on following the Law (the Torah, the first five books of the Bible) we are under a curse. (see Deuteronomy 27:26)

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us," (Galatians 3:13).

It was Jesus' death on the cross that rescued us from the curse of the Law. If we insist on preserving the Law, we negate the cross of Christ, Christ's death on the cross.

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery," (Galatians 5:1).

If we measure ourselves by how well we follow the Law, we have returned to our slavery to sin. We are "justifying" ourselves with the Law. For us religious sinners, this is precisely what is meant by "a dog returning to its own vomit." And if we put other Christians under the Law, we are subjecting them to that very same yoke of slavery. We force them to return to their own vomit as well.

"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law," (Galatians 5:18).

We cannot be led by the Spirit and follow the Law at the same time. It's either one or the other. The Bible tells us to walk in the Spirit, to be filled with the Spirit, to keep in step with the Spirit. We can't do these things if we are stuck following rules, stuck in slavery to the Law.

The people who would keep you to slavery to the Law, slavery to sin, will say, "Paul was talking about the ceremonial law, not the moral law. He abolished the ceremonial law, but we are still under the moral law."

Sorry. That artificial distinction between the ceremonial law and the moral law is a man-made excuse to keep themselves and others under bondage to the Law. It is not a Biblical distinction.

Paul never makes any distinction between the so-called ceremonial law and the so-called moral law. The Bible does not make that distinction. The Law is the Law. And Paul says we are delivered from the Law.

So just remember this: anyone who uses the Law in Leviticus to prove that God condemns homosexuality is abusing Scripture —- totally misusing Leviticus. We cannot use any verses from Leviticus to prove what God's will is.

If someone uses Leviticus 18:22 or 20:13 to prove that God hates homosexuality, challenge them on it. Tell them, "In Galatians Paul says we are no longer under the Law."

When they say, "God was talking about the ceremonial Law, not the moral Law," ask them, "Where in the Bible does it say there's a difference between moral law and ceremonial law? That distinction was made up by men. Show me in the Bible where it says that."

They won't be able to.

Simple truth: You cannot quote Leviticus to prove God hates homosexuality. You cannot, you must not, return people to slavery to the Law. You short-circuit, at least temporarily, the hope of learning to walk in the Spirit. The Apostle Paul said so in Galatians.

Notice, I didn't say anything about the "Old Testament." And I don't believe that the Law is irrelevant to us, either.

The WHOLE Bible is relevant.

All I said is that you can't quote Leviticus to prove that God hates homosexuality. The Apostle Paul said as much in Galatians.

Leviticus 18:22 or 20:13 are like "Blue Laws." Blue Laws are laws that remain "on the books" but have been superseded by subsequent laws or policies. There are still laws against spitting on the sidewalk and against selling liquor on the Sabbath, but they are no longer enforced. Leviticus has been superseded by Galatians and Romans. Some people call it "progressive revelation."

We no longer enforce the Levitical injunctions against eating pork, shrimp, rabbit, or squid because we are no longer under the Law. That is the real, Biblical reason for not enforcing the laws in Leviticus.

By the way, God also calls eating pork, shrimp, rabbit and squid an abomination. Wouldn't it sound silly to thunder from the pulpit, "You will NOT eat a BLT! It is an abomination to God! You will NOT eat shrimp, squid, abalone or oysters! It is an abomination to God! All sin is an abomination to God, large or small, no matter how you explain it away!"

I'll bet they said that about Paul, too.

Pastor Needed for South Carolina Semi Rural Church

Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:46:12 +0000

I apologize if this is not the correct forum to discuss such matters.

My name is Fritz Smith and I am chairman of the board at Memorial Chapel CMA in Bishopville, SC.

We have an average attendance of around 95 and the chuch has strong(but welcoming) family roots.
Our congregation is made up of a mixture of ages ranging from semi strong youth group(average attendance of around 10), young adults, middle age and older crowd. Our current worship style is a mixture of traditional and contemporary. Normally 1-2 hymns and 2-3 choruses. Powerpoint is used for words and message points along with CMA video segments 2-3 times a month.

While the church is set in a very rural setting with the parsonage next door, it is within 15 minutes of Sumter, 20 minutes from Camden, 35 minutes from Florence and 45 minutes from Columbia. All that is said that while we enjoy the advantages of "country life", there is plenty of "city" nearby.

We are open to any age but would prefer a pastor in the 35-55 year old range. Our church believes in a strong

Our current pastor, Jim Peterson(you probably know him as previous Alliance Mens President) stayed for 4 years and is well loved but is moving on to a district position at the end of this year. Jim notified the church about 4 months ago he may leave at end of year and just announced a few weeks ago it was now a certainty. In Jim's words, we have a "unique" church with strong families but without any divisions.

If you know of anyone interested, please contact myself, Fritz Smith at fritz@airbedz.com , 803-229-2287 or South Atlantic District Superintendant, Ferrell Townes.

Thank you,
Fritz Smith

Hi, all!

Mon, 09 Nov 2009 04:15:51 +0000

I'm a longtime member of the Alliance family (over 20 years), but new to this e-Community. I'm an Alliance pastor presently without a church (ordained since 1995) and reside in the New England District. My wife, Aprile, and I are presently active in Green Mountain Community Alliance Church of Duxbury, VT--our home church--but seeking a new place of pastoral ministry. A 1989 Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary grad, I'm a New England native with a heart for the region's churches, but open to serving wherever the Lord sees fit. I'd like to connect with other members of the C&MA family, either on here, or if you prefer, via e-mail, at parson42@hotmail.com.

If You've Been Blessed by the Ministry of Ray Boltz

Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:55:30 +0000

If you've been blessed by the ministry of Ray Boltz, the way Dave Love was, I thought you might like to know about his upcoming concert in Portland, Indiana toward the end of October.

Quote

Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009
Time: 7:00pm - 10:00pm
Location: Arts Place
Street: 131 E Walnut Street
City/Town: Portland, IN

Peterson Toscano and singer/song writer Ray Boltz will come together for an evening of entertainment and insight.
Spend a wild & wonderful evening with Peterson Toscano and his zany, heartwarming characters. A gay, comic actor, playwright and theatrical performance activist, Peterson has presented one-person shows through out North America and Europe.
Renowned for his seamless transformations from character to character, audiences consistently find his work hilarious and deeply insightful.
Boltz has dedicated over fifteen years to music and ministry. Through these years he has captured the attention of the CCM industry by garnering three Dove Awards, two gold albums, a gold video, and twelve number one singles. He has also sold more than four million units of product.
Ray also has publicly come out as a gay man and is now writing and performing music about that part of his journey too.

Through all this time and these accomplishments Ray's vision for his ministry still remains the same…to produce and perform music that allows listeners and audiences to see Jesus.

Tickets: Adults $15 and Students $10
Reserved seating only.
To purchase your ticket call 260.726.4809
Event sponsored by
PRISM/GSA Gay-Straight Alliance
Portland, Indiana

Please pray for God's anointing on Ray as he ministers to a difficult-to-reach audience.

Denes House, on 13 September 2008 - 05:27 AM, said:

This seemed like the most appropriate thread for this bit of news:

Christian musician Ray Boltz has come out of the closet.

The writer/singer ("Thank you for giving to the Lord," "Watch the Lamb") has left his wife and children, and is now living what he calls a normal gay lifestyle.

David Love, on 30 September 2008 - 04:33 AM, said:

I apologize that I am an infrequent visitor here, but this thread is one that I am interested to see is still being discussed. As I read yesterday of Ray Boltz coming out of the closet, I thought about how much his songs touched me in the time shortly after my conversion to Christ. I can't help but think that internal strife is the cause of much of the greatest prose, poetry, and music.

Is Ray Boltz not saved because he is a homosexual - I wouldn't have a clue. Now that I think of it, I don't have a clue if Billy Graham, or Max Lucado, or Rick Warren, or anyone else is saved. I can't see anyone's heart, but the God I serve can see their heart. I don't know about any of you, but I know how my mind sometimes works, and the sinful thoughts that cross my mind, and I wouldn't want to be judged on what goes on in my mind. Still, I do remember when the words of scripture were first opened to me, and how I grasped at Christ's offer like someone grasping a liferope in a stormy sea. My life's never been the same.

That all said, the Word of God does go out if its way to give strong warnings about sexual sin and homosexuality. I don't think God does that because sexual sin is more offensive to God than other sins - each and every sin is offensive to Him. I think its because God knows us, and He knows that sexual sin has the power to do bad things to us. Maybe its just the physical damage it does to our body, but I think its more than that - I believe that sexual sin might harden our hearts against God, and keep us from reaching the point of saving faith.

I had trouble sleeping last night, and I know I spent time praying about Ray Boltz, that God is helping him, and even using what is going on in Ray's life to reach homosexuals for Christ.

Thanks for this conversation - there are people in my family in close relationships with homosexuals, and this discussion has helped me understand this issue more deeply, and be better prepared to discuss with them.

In Christ's Love,

Dave

Pastoral Visitation

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:29:38 +0000

Pastoral Visitation

To start out, I want to make sure everyone knows I personally am not, nor have ever been, a pastor. I have been in church leadership for many years and have observed the visitation styles of numerous pastors, both in and outside the C&MA. This is not intended to be a criticism of pastors (I know how hard they work), but a topic for discussion.

All pastors I have known or observed visit their people when they are in the hospital, have a death in the family, etc. Few seem to have any plan for regular visitation outside of emergencies, and those who do soon fail to carry it out due to the “tyranny of the urgent”. While pastors certainly should visit those who are sick or have urgent needs, I would call this type of visitation the “Squeaky Wheel Visitation Plan”.

My grandfather was an Episcopal priest. After a stint as a missionary to the mining camps of Utah, he took a position at a church in Upstate NY. According to my father, he made a commitment with the Lord to visit every family in the church on a regular basis – I’ve forgotten how often, but it may have been once a year. He used a bicycle at first, but soon got an automobile. The church, which had been on a plateau, soon began growing and kept growing. (and It certainly wasn’t because of his dynamic preaching!) There was, however, a price. Neither of his children followed the Lord. In fact, my Dad was hostile to the gospel until the day he died, claiming his father put the church ahead of the family.

So just how important is pastoral visitation? One church I attended nearly split after one person took offence because the pastor didn’t visit people enough. That is an extreme, but I believe visitation can have a strong effect either for good or bad. Unfortunately, the most common visitation pattern I have observed over the years is the “Squeaky Wheel Visitation Plan”. Certain people and families with perpetual problems and crisises get visited over and over, while others who appear to have no problems may never get a pastoral visit. I have observed that often these people may be very active in the church initially, but over the years gradually withdraw from church activities and eventually drift away.

This doesn’t mean that the pastor should do all the visitation, though. In fact, the pastor should be training the elders and deacons to do much of it. There will be people who say that they don’t want a visit from a deacon, but from the pastor, but it is hard for the pastor to do everything and it is better that they get a visit from a deacon than no visit at all. The pastor does have to do the training, though, and also organize it and see that it is carried out. The biggest hindrance I have seen to this is that most pastors are horrible at delegating.

Another hindrance to visitation is too many church events and activities. The pastor is required to be at most, and feels that he meets the people there anyway, so further visitation is unnecessary. However, church events are no substitute for getting to know people one on one in their own home. Some people may not want a visit, but at least they should be given the opportunity.

In light of this, I would pose some questions for discussion:

• Is visitation important enough that pastors should put the same effort into scheduling it and carrying it out that they do into sermon preparation?
• How does a pastor balance the time required for visitation with the time needed for his wife and family? His sermon preparation and other church work?
• Why do pastors have so much trouble delegating?
• How does a pastor escape the “Squeaky Wheel Visitation Plan”?
• Anything else you can think of?

My Introduction to the e-community

Sun, 25 Oct 2009 21:36:17 +0000

Hello Everyone,
This is my introdution to the e-community....
My name is Bill Pike, I live in Vermillion, South Dakota.We are in the southeastern corner of South Dakota.I attend a Christian & Missionary Allience Church.We also call our Church,"Hillside Community Church".Our Pastor is an awsome man,well call him Brother Jim.I also am in charge of,an atticts group called,"Jesus For Atticts".We help people with all types of additions,for example:Alcohalics,Drug Attics,Sexual Addition,Overeaters,Religous Abuse,Physical Abuse,Ect...Anyone is welcome in the community of Vermillion,South Dakota.
My call is also to reach out to a lost and dying world, and to share the Good News of Jesus Christ of Nazereth.Stop by my profile and leave a note.God Bless you always. In Jesus, Bill Pike

My first "Hi!"

Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:11:35 +0000

Greetings,

this is my first "Hi!" introducing myself to the eCommunity. My name is Maria Evangelista, I am a Christian call to minister the love of God to souls seeking His peace telling the good news of Jesus Salvation.

I moved back to Lockport, NY recently and I am attending Lockport Alliance again and will like to also attend bible groups meetings. I would like to meet anyone from the eCommunity that also is a member of Lockport Alliance.

I am very active with Christian witness in the internet since 2000 through websites and at communities such as Facebook, mySpace, Multiply, Ning, YouTube and at Christian networks. You are welcome to look me up in them by my name: Maria Evangelista or by my ID: ministergospel2.

I pray to be a blessing and receive a blessing in this eCommunity.

God's blessings,
maria evangelista
.
.
- -

Susan: 10 Random Things About Me

Fri, 08 May 2009 19:15:02 +0000

Here is 10 Random Things About Me

1. I am a member at Hickory First Hmong Alliance Church (FHAC)

2. I like things to be organized

3. I am the middle child

4. Got baptized on December 29, 2007 at Hickory Cove Lake

5. Currently Studying and Majoring in Human Services

6. If I could I will paint my room to Snapdragon (shades of purple)

7. Was a bridesmaid for my cousin wedding

8. Love to read Karen Kingsbury novels

9. Birthday is on September 1st

10. I am Hmong (Asian) and English is my second language

Church Etiquette

Fri, 15 May 2009 12:17:50 +0000

I have a question to pose for discussion to the group. What constitutes church etiquette for your church and how is it made known to people who attend regularly? I recently took over as pastor for a church plant and I have noticed that a lot of people who do not have previous church backgrounds don't know how to conduct themselves in a church service setting. And I don't mean that they aren't all wearing suits and dresses. I mean little things like letting their children run wild in the sanctuary, clothing habits that run to inappropriate, arriving significantly late week in and week out. How do you handle these types of things?

Tsunami and Typhoon relief effort

Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:48:41 +0000

Hi all. We are working feverishly to update the home page on cmalliance.org to reflect the relief efforts provided by The Alliance for the Typhoon, Earthquake and Tsunami victims.

We will be posting this information today. It will link to CAMA giving opportunites (which can be found here ).

If you have any relief or support stories/efforts, PLEASE send them to me today and we will see what we can do to add them to this IMMEDIATE information effort on the website.

Also, if any of you have a twitter account, please begin posting messages about this effort with the hashtag #cmalliance and pointing to http://www.camaservices.org/urgent

I will update you once the page on cmalliance.org is completed so you can post that page URL there as well.

Thank you so much for your consideration!

Perspectives?

Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:06:20 +0000

Is anyone out there taking Perspectives on the World Christian Movement? This is the time of year when most courses are getting underway- its a big commitment but a fantastic experience. To find out if there is a course near you

http://www.perspectives.org/site/pp.aspx?c...F&b=2806295

If you are just interested in finding out what it is I would encourage you to sit in on a class- usually local coordinators will allow to take one or two classes. I especially want to encourage pastors to take the course and set us partial scholarships to encourage people to go. It will make a difference in lives and how you understand Christian Mission.

MY YOUTH GROUP COULD USE A GRANT

Thu, 24 Sep 2009 01:48:34 +0000

Hello!

I'm the worship leader at my youth group. We belong to a branch of the Cambodian Evangelical Church, which was originally founded by Paul Elison, and affiliated with C&MA. My youth group consists of around 40-50 teenagers. The leadership is very dedicated, but it's very hard to build and grow without money.

In these times, it seems as if the youth group gets left out of the offering and tithes. I asked my church leaders if the main C&MA helps out local churches, but they don't seem to know. I was wondering if my youth group would be eligible for any type of grant.

We could really use some new sound equipment, instruments, outreach brochures, and extra money to pay for educational books. A lot of the older kids would like to take T.E.E (Theology Extended Education), but their parents can't afford $40 a book. T.E.E are 6 books that go over the life of Christ, which was written by the C&MA for the Cambodian community.

Can anybody offer us some help? Maybe even names of companies I can write grant letters to?

HOW TO FUNDRAISE FOR THE YOUTH GROUP

Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:18:52 +0000

Hi!

Fundraising seems to be a really big challenge these days, especially for the church youth group. When special offering requests aren't enough, we look toward fundraising ideas. Car washes work really well. But it's seasonal, something that can only be done in the summer. I'm the worship leader in my youth group, and we could really use some fundraising ideas that work all year round. We held an open mic night once, but it didn't go so well.

Does anybody have any ideas to help us out? Throw any idea you got that worked for you, or think might work.

Thank you!